Impact Score

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fourier
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I'm not allowed to post in the feedback area. I set this up for a friend the other night and was looking through the changelog to find things that aren't in the documentation (like Mode for CA), and I noticed this item. However, I don't believe it works.

If you set Impact Score = 100, it only counts damage against health, not armor. With no armor, every normal rocket or rail gives 1 point. With vq3 armor (.66), it'll do the 33/66 split meaning 3 rockets would give one point.

Unless I'm missing something here, I don't think the intention was to have it done only for health in this thread:
http://www.excessiveplus.net/forums/thread/added-clan-arena-points-system

Kudos on the continued work on this mod even ~12 years after it's release.

CZE|BEAZT
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Re: Impact Score

cos youre trying post reply to history book. Try to make new topic here: http://www.excessiveplus.net/forums/feedback/feedback

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fourier
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Re: Impact Score

I guess I must have. I could have sworn I tried it in that link you gave.

Thanks

epsiplayer
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Re: Impact Score

I moved it to the feedback
_________
epsislow


WASP*KILLER
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Re: Impact Score
fourier wrote:

...If you set Impact Score = 100, it only counts damage against health, not armor. With no armor, every normal rocket or rail gives 1 point. With vq3 armor (.66), it'll do the 33/66 split meaning 3 rockets would give one point.

Unless I'm missing something here, I don't think the intention was to have it done only for health in this thread:
http://www.excessiveplus.net/forums/thread/added-clan-arena-points-system...

Except that in QL/OSP and other games/Mods with CA, health is set at 100 and in E+ it ranges from 300-333 in Q3 and 333-350 in OA. The additional health should offset the need to include armor in the calculation.

Second, based on an Impact Score (IPS) of 100, the team scores would be outrageous. If a 7 vs 7 group of E+ OpenArena players (with less overall skill that present in Q3) can obtain a score of almost 500 on a 6 minute map, with only RG/SG/and MG, and an IPS of 175, what would happen on a Public Q3 E+ Server with a 15 minute timelimit, all weapons, an IPS of 100 and more skilled players? I'm guessing that the scoreboard would explode. If fact, I would like to know if the scoreboard can display team scores in the thousands?

http://wasp.goquake.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=4089

Everyone has different preferences but I like the simplicity of the IPS as it is. You can achieve what you want by using "ents" files to remove armour or by using conditional statements in the weapon configs to reduce or eliminate armour when IPS is enabled.

fourier wrote:

...Kudos on the continued work on this mod even ~12 years after it's release.

Yes it's great, even amazing that this Mod continues but you're a little off... Q3 is 12 years old, E+ is 8 (if you start from the 1st public release).

fourier
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Re: Impact Score

Thanks for moving this to the right area.

@killer, I'm afraid I don't see how that makes much sense. To your first point about the default excessive health of over 300, you're assuming that all servers are using excessive and not any other type (in my case, vq3 weapons).

To your second point, I'm not quite sure why you'd use an IPS of 100 if in excessive -- you'd set it appropriately for each config. I'm certainly not asking for it to be locked to 100 if that's your concern. It was an example in my case demonstrating the bug/counter-intuitive functionality of Impact Score (100 is an easy test to demonstrate that it only counts health damage). If I was running excessive, I know I'd probably use an impact score of the 300-500 (that's the whole point of it being changeable, no?). What if I was running Vq3 weaps with 5000/5000, wanting people to just get points from impact score and not kills? I'd set it to 100. If I double all weapon damage for some reason (instead of just halving health), I'd set it to 200.

It makes more sense to have it relative to total damage done. If it's not that way, then what about people running configs where armour takes up all the damage? Your example only works within a narrow, static definition of using only excessive and not modifying anything. I think the point of excessive plus is being configurable, not being locked down to something.

Even further, I could say points are relative. If you use a low impact score value, all scores will increase, so what's the problem? They are still relative to each other, so the differentials are still realtive to each other by around the don't change.

To your third point, I don't see why you'd use map ents over the map items configuration, but maybe there's something you'd like to replace it with or whatever. Still, why go to all that hassle just to get around an issue?

I see no negative reason why Impact Score should not be changed to include armour damage. The comment says "if set to 100, you will get an extra score/point every 100 damage inflicted on your opponents", not damage to health done. So at the very least it's counter intuitive, counter to described functionality. It's not a big issue, but I see no reason why not to include armour damage. Especially since it was requested with a reference to QL (in the thread a linked). It's inherited from RA3, btw, where they'd have a separate field on the scoreboard for the damage score. It gave a better idea of what the player was doing vs just points, since in RA3 gametypes you may not get the kill, but do a hell of a lot of damage.

Finally, to your last point, I was only referring to q3's age, not to E+ Winking. To continue modding a game this old is admirable.

Edit: One more point, killer, using your example of the excessive server/config you laid out, if they did change IPS to include armor, it would not change anything in the server, since there's no armour... Not sure what the fuss is about.

WASP*KILLER
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Re: Impact Score

Fourier, yes I assumed that you used a Plus or E5/E6 config. After all, that is what this Mod is primarily designed to support. ofc, E+ is extremely extensible and can be used to mimic other mods/physics/weapons style/etc., but you are asking for a change - albeit, a small one - that would primarily benefit your niche (Vanilla Q3) and other configs that are dissimilar to Plus/E5 in initial and regenerative health.

I get your point about the armor issue but as an Admin, weapon config author and FragFest planner, I look at IPS not taking into account armor as a tactical map ploy that is a benefit not a hindrance to the most popular config in E+... PLUS.

As I said previously

WASP*KILLER wrote:
...Everyone has different preferences...

IMO, there are other features/bugs more worthy of the Devs attention should 2.2c/2.3 ever get released. Nonetheless, GL getting the sympathetic ear of a Dev.