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[Closed] Force 'green men' off
30. May 2010 - 23:35
#11
Re: [Suggestion] Force 'green men' off
wrote:wrote:
players without e+ dont have snow...So they have it easier from the beginning xD
haha n1! 
31. May 2010 - 0:15
#12
Germany
Re: [Suggestion] Force 'green men' off
wrote:My fact is 15-lines autoshooter of green pixels, which was done within 15 minutes and successfully tested on a server with pb.
Anyway I suggested it to be switchable by admin, so there is no point to object to it. You will never see it ON on your favorite servers, and you will never go to servers where it is ON. No conflicts.
ofc it surpasses pb and pure, its a custom made hack.
the other point is, make 30 lines, for natural q3 red and blue, use keel and cg_forcemodel 1, anybody who actually can do such a hack or knows how to set up enemymodels to green (or yellow) can actually also do this one and add one more line to turn it off for teammates (or add stuff for ffa).
what am i talking about is that u dont actually prevent cheating itself, u just force cheaters to write a hack more complicated, on the price of pissing off nearly the whole community, and it will end up in those people just coding a different hack not working with deadflags, teammates and so on.
actually i would suggest that u rather spent ur time on an proper anticheattool which helps analysing peoples mouse movement and so on.
ps: a nice security hole is also the e+.dll, beast can actually code anything into it, even a hack (though i guess the only thing i can do against it is trust, even if i dislike it).
31. May 2010 - 14:41
#14
Germany
Re: [Suggestion] Force 'green men' off
well, we can actually try to write server side/demo analysing stuff, its all about who has the time for what.
btw, the pk3 u mention can be blocked by pure as far as i know 
the q3 hook however, not.
31. May 2010 - 15:12
#15
Re: [Suggestion] Force 'green men' off
About disallowing standard Quake cvars... there are servers on e+ on which PB kicks for cg_shadows != 0.
Strange fo me, because cg_shadows can be considered as a cheat only when set to 3 (model shadows).
BTW: in my opinion playing with model shadows on can damage your psychic (own shadow dancing around you all the time - LOL).
The point is:
cg_shadows is a standard Quake cvar, but it's banned
As a server admin you can add to pb cvar list settings like xp_enemymodel, xp_enemycolors or cg_forcemodel.
31. May 2010 - 16:06
#16
Re: [Suggestion] Force 'green men' off
wrote:... there are servers on e+ on which PB kicks for cg_shadows != 0.
What the ...????
31. May 2010 - 16:25
#17
Re: [Suggestion] Force 'green men' off
PB is like a big custom map: it results in empty server.
you can forbid anything with PB but noone comes. I remind that among those several servers fed with the community-educated players there are hundreds of other servers that are waiting for just any player and thus can not afford to use neither PB nor pure. (and they would also dislike if some well tweaked player would come and instantly turn just established playing to the bloodshed leading back to empty server)
31. May 2010 - 16:22
#18
Re: [Suggestion] Force 'green men' off
btw a malicious pk3 will not be blocked by pure, because it is either present (played) on that pure server as well, or it had been downloaded and run earlier. Anyway pure does its work just after all player's pk3 were loaded and started (and possible damage inflicted)
31. May 2010 - 16:42
#19
Re: [Suggestion] Force 'green men' off
Yeah .. and in the future this will behave like :
now i(having e+ mod and an e+ config)
want to join this unknown server but .. im banned because i used r_picmip 3 > 0
i rejoin .. now im banned because i use cl_maxpackets 125 > 30
i rejoin .. now im banned because i use rate 25000 > ...
i rejoin .. now im banned because i use xp_enemyColor xxxx != ""
i rejoin .. now im banned because i use xp_enemyModel xxxx != ""
i rejoin ..
i rejoin ..
i rejoin ..
i \quit
so i need a special config to join that server.
i offten join a "newcomers" server to check or maybe help improve some players to continue their struggle with the e+ commands but this way its totaly useless .. why you make an e+ server then? why don't you do a normal quake 3 server or another mod ?
check quake live for quakelive is in the same bottle as us .. u have forceModel & forceColors there.. you have HUDS and you can make the user experience way more different from player to player ... and what have they done in this related case ? Nothing .. and its the normal thing to do ..
Ahhh its not fair cause they use x/y/z commands that X,Y players dont know ... if they dont know them .. they should search for them or some 1 should explain not nerfing the mod because the fairness experience is not the same in your mind..
BECAUSE all this is about it's what YOU consider NORMAL to be .. put this question not to you but to the whole comunity on what is NORMAL for this mod to behave and i think you will find the right solution.
Another problem is about having newcomers joining the e+ servers .. they will NOT join any other server exccept those that have that settings always ON. And this result in having less players joining. You want this mod to have new mid-pro-players ? then tell me how they will transit thru these servers ?
I agree about the fact that cheaters with green autoshot will be stopped but that wont stop cheaters to come ! they will just change their "cheatware"...
About this :
Quote:
it is sad to see how players can raise their aiming skill and rank just with training their green reflex.
Its funny to see this. You must accept that you are talkin in e+ forum which is not the "normal quake 3 mod" you expected to be. Osp / cpma / quakelive have the forcecolors /forcemodels added and all the mid-pro-players train with them. If you think that this is not fair .. I think you should think replaying that "normal quake 3 mod" you love and buffing all way in this thread.
_________
epsitalks - i dont use green btw
31. May 2010 - 16:43
#20
Germany
Re: [Suggestion] Force 'green men' off
oh and, people who actually can code such a cheat can code such models too so what?
in fact, i actually would be up for testing some new anticheat, but the only thing i can suggest is serverside and based on statistics created by live measurement ingame.
how this exactly is realised aint up to me D:
edit: btw, about pb, everybody knows its not optimum, but give us better tool and we are fine.
about cg_shadows: 1 is allowed, 2 is already volume shadow so.
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it surpasses pb and pure because technically it can not be caught by these shields since it does the same as human does. But if a player is 'pissed off' without its color tweaks, then for sure it affects same and even harder to the intelligence-less color detecting bots.
We only discuss the theory here. Practically it can be implemented without the community approval because it will be OFF by default.
As for anti-cheat tool, i think it is very useful thing to build right into the server code, and I would spend my time on it with the help from people who can see hacks.
**ps: there is a nicer security hole for the next nightmare. Any pk3 may contain *.qvm, and then it will replace the standard qvm and run on the next map change. Then that malicious qvm may create *.dll file and write any code there and then simply change vm_* to '0' and restart the game. Viola, we have run the native code from pk3!