yes that right observation, but to gain i would rather focus on that group and give it a lot more rest, if u train that much they shape themselves better but its actually hard to gain the centimeters that way according to what i read everywhere in internet and tested it on my as well, fat is always pain in the ass when u gain but when u eat much and rest much this always will lead to getting some fat

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i was doing something like ninja but with other variations, walking, runing, with a proper itensity u can loss up to 10kg monthly, of course u need a diet from vegetables + meat and stop to drink anything aside water

it will help to losse fat, but to gain u will need something comletelly diferent

@bong, i would like to know what your doing, my curent routine is kind of deadly one, i think i do to much, my results drops because i train every second day 8 excersises a day

btw, do you think that drinking anything aside water is really important and can affect your results alot? I'm not drinking anything too unhealthy, like soft drinks. But I am drinking milk pretty often.

yes it afects the results a lot, there are provent test by sience that milk actually makes fat loss a lot harder, milk should be rather used when u bulking

if comes to the rest drinks, if u want to have good efects dont drink nothing aside water, because all other stuf including natural juice contains sugars, thats why also most diets for fat los have no fruits or real small amount of fruits included

also when u feel hungry u can drink simply water

@bong, u are wrong about milk quite much, google for it, it has been proven in test that drinking milk makes cutting/fat loss a lot harder

do not kill me masters of trainigs but how about became good even without scheduled trainings and without using many pro addons to food for making us bigger or better or stronger?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_%28athlete%29