Ukraine discussion

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Loxotron
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Re: Ukraine discussion

Ksz, please tell me which country start to live better after US invasion? Iraq? Livia? I think its pretty clear that it far worse now there than before.

About Crimea in USSR it was Russian territory and were given to Ukraine without any documents so basicly if you start to dig out, it was never officially Ukraine land, thats why taking it back was 100% right decision and people of this land vote with over 90 votes to join Russia should shows pretty clear where they want to live.

About Ukraine instability: It's pretty clear that USA want to put NATO bases as close as they can to Russian borders and than saying its not against Russia, while over government even ask if they can write official signed document that this bases are not against Russia, and ofc they refused even do such small thing to show that they are saying true.... It is very profitable for USA to block Russia economically and than sell their gas and oil to EU, all of this is only business.

About the airplane: As soon as some EU countries start to reject economic block against Russia, because for many EU countries is very profitable to work with us, USA start to make more noise like this plane to show EU that we are aggressors and need to block us even harder. Only thing i don't understand why EU is listening to USA at all, business between Russia and EU way more profitable for EU than between USA, by blocking us they losing lot of money while USA gaining them.

In my eyes soon the BRICK counties will be ahead of big 8 and start to rule the world, USA will fall apart on states like different countries and EU most likely will fall apart too, at least if they won't change anything in their vision now.

Rico [E][S][T]
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Re: Ukraine discussion

As i sayd its just my thoughts. If US have evidence, they would yell about it 24/7. But they dont. Instead they are just accusing with no facts and proper investigation. I believe russia has proofs bcoz they have the best anti rocket system in the world atm and they are tracing everething especially near their border. They could release proofs for example if Obama will directly accuse Russia just to make him look fool again. Although everebody know Obamas reputation it will not harm him 2 mutch. Russia can keep it secret either just to strike Ukraine, eu, us in private. (whoever responsible for that. UA may shot down the plane but they are 2 dumb to do that alone)

kszksz wrote:

aren't regions they controlling stabilising earlier or later? I'm sure some nations wouldn't stop killing each other without US's help.

Why u think these regions US controlling will stabilising sooner or later if theyr goal was to destabelize it?

Rico [E][S][T]
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Re: Ukraine discussion
Loxotron wrote:

Only thing i don't understand why EU is listening to USA at all, business between Russia and EU way more profitable for EU than between USA, by blocking us they losing lot of money while USA gaining them.

I can answer this question after iam back

edit:

Controlling the biggest EU economy (Germany) USA controlling everything. Not a secret after IIWW germany was occupied by soviet and american soldiers, only weird thing is that russians gone, but americans occupy Germany till now and have the biggest military base outside USA called Ramstein. Furthermore half of german gold reserves is stored in the USA. Germans wanted to get it back, but americans declined their request, not even letting german delegation to see if its still there.... Iam not even telling about german constitution written by americans

V1979
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Re: Ukraine discussion

Ukrainian discussion?! Where's Ukrainian language here?!

More seriously now:
As I understand the main topic here is who shot down the Malaysian Airlines airplane over Ukraine. For most normal people it was a tragedy, first of all. The main version of its reason is a missile firing. Before ending a detailed investigation any accusations or historical examples have no sense. They are just attempts to gain some political scores. Let's wait...

I suggest you stopping blaming the whole nations in that bullshit that your media's propaganda inspires you. I believe that generally all ordinary people have the common interests: their home, family, work and career, hobby etc. To avoid saying or writing bullshit one should know well a discussed topic.

A simple example: all we know the process of Lunar eclipse in which the moon appears darkened as it passes into the earth's shadow. But if one knows nothing about the Solar system, someone can tell him that it's Devil who bites off a piece of the Moon each night. And then this ignorant person would tell to other how wicked and cruel is Devil who eats the Moon.
Those who have an idea of motion of the planets would think how stupid and ignorant this person is. The other who don't have such an idea would believe him and even spread this bullshit further.

So, before spreading an idea you'd better learn a topic, collect different points of view on it, analyze all the details and only then very, very carefully and impartially expose your thoughts. Of course, if you want to seem to be an interesting interlocutor, but not an ignorant and rude person.

DrunkWarrior
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UA Ukraine
Re: Ukraine discussion

Stop war

Save Ukraine or next YOU ALL!

DrunkWarrior
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UA Ukraine
Re: Ukraine discussion

Stop war

Save Ukraine or next YOU ALL!

MOVENDI
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Re: Ukraine discussion

MMmmm Discussion of the Ukraine. Perfect.
Tell you what - Ukraine will die for sure. Crimea occupied- none gives a f#ck. Ukranian soldiers dying - none gives a f#ck. Plane hited by russians - none gives a f#ck. That Angela is too afraid of winter without gas. And America. Stupid America is afraid of war with Russia. Pussy yankees.

0MS
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Re: Ukraine discussion
MOVENDI wrote:

MMmmm Discussion of the Ukraine. Perfect.
Tell you what - Ukraine will die for sure. Crimea occupied- none gives a f#ck. Ukranian soldiers dying - none gives a f#ck. Plane hited by russians - none gives a f#ck. That Angela is too afraid of winter without gas. And America. Stupid America is afraid of war with Russia. Pussy yankees.

Unprincipled business puts a spoke into a wheel of necessary sanctions against russia.

V1979
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Re: Ukraine discussion

All the same but now in English...
Well... Ok...
Today I have seen the funeral of 10-month child killed by the Ukainian soldiers who shell Lugansk with their multiple rocket launchers. For me it was a tragedy too.
But for most Ukrainian nazis (soldiers, political activists, forums' commentators) men, women, children who live in Donetsk and Lugansk regions are just terrorists or even Colorado beetles and their larvas. For those who don't understand what I mean I can explain:
People who rebelled against the coup d'etat which had taken place in Kiev in February 2014 put on St. George Ribbon. Every social movement needs a symbol, a banner, a flag. Why St. George Ribbon? See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_George
Briefly: St. George's Ribbon constitutes one of the most recognized and respected symbols of military valour in modern Russia. The ribbon consists of a black and orange bicolour pattern, with three black and two orange stripes. It appears as a component of many high military decorations awarded by imperial, soviet, and modern Russia, including the recently revived Order of St. George and the Cross of St. George medal, as well as the Soviet Order of Glory award. It is widely associated with the commemoration of World War II due to the usage of the ribbon in the Medal "For the Victory over Germany in the Great Patriotic War 1941–1945" awarded to all personnel, civilian or military, who aided the war effort.

That coup d'etat was widely supported by ukrainian nationalist parties and movements. The ukrainian nationalism is strongly led to rusophobia - see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofEF5l72sjQ

They chant: "One language, one nation, one homeland - it's Ukraine" and then "Moskolyaku na gilyaku" that means "Moscovite onto a bough" - "Hang Moskovites".
Such people made that coup d'etat in Kiev, such people led Poroshenko to his presidential place.

Thus, the rebels chose St. George Ribbon as a symbol of their fight against the ukrainian nazism and fascism. But euromaidan activists derogatorily refer the Ribbon of Saint George as the "Colorado Ribbon", as the colors of the ribbon coincide with the colors of a Colorado potato beetle. They started calling people wearing St. George Ribbon as "Colorado beetles" and their children "Colorado beetle larvas" and then they called like this all the population of Donetsk and Lugansk regions and of course every Russian. So, the ukrainian nationalists consider them as subhuman beings, insects etc.
After reports about civil victims killed by ukrainian army or by nazi guard we can see such comments (see here for example http://www.pravda.com.ua ) :
Hooray! More Colorado beetles and their larva died! Kill'em! Erase them all from the face of the earth!

This is the ugly face of actual ukrainian nationalism and state elite.
You call Malaysian Airlines airplane crash to be a tragedy. I agree. But death of civil people (including little children) killed by ukrainian army in Donetsk and Lugansk regions is tragedy, too.

The main problem for me is that most western people see only their people's deaths and don't pay attention to other countries' tragedies: Iraq, Libia, Syria, Egypt and now Ukraine. I especially cite coutries where the USA and their allies interfered - the countries which suffer the most now.
Before blaming Russia take a look at you: EU, NATO, USA - what your own countries make for peace or war, what are the consequences of your actions. NATO (North Atlantic Terrorist Organization) and the USA bombed Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libia, organized coups d'etat or rebels in Syria, Egypt. Ukraine.

Maybe they should stop?! Leave the rest of the world in peace! Without those western rules and ideas of so-called democracy which killed more people in recent years than any dictator.

kszksz
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Re: Ukraine discussion

@Loxotron, Iraq? Let me see, no Saddam Hussein? We may discuss it as well in case of propaganda and nihilism, there was everything okay, people was happy and then US with disinformation program invaded Iraq and made us think Saddam was a tyrant, right? Pretty similar situation with Libya, good guy Gaddafi, that was 2011, situation stabilised and now it is chaotic again, but there is no US (officially) just France as I know, claimed right to this country by some documents. So let's look on it like, you have 6 bullies in school, Americans are biggest one, but protects you of other bullies, so you are loosing just one apple instead of 5 to rest.

If Crimea was never Ukrainian why it had to be annexed? You see, I'm not sure in this case because both sides are talking about different things, UE/US/Ukraine says Crimea belongs to UA and they have documents and on other hand Russian Federation claims right to it because there was no documents about giving Crimea to UA, as I said in earlier posts, I'm considering both sides as liars so, can't answer this with 100% sure.

Even if they wants to build NATO bases as close to border as it is possible where is problem? I wouldn't suspect NATO/US/EU for sudden attack on Russian Federation;D I don't think US would sell their oil and gas to European countries, but definitely will have benefits of it, so yea, it's pretty business thing, unfortunately not in way you think it is, let me explain, net worth of dollar [$] and importance of this currency is closely related to petrol, as you see in news, price for barrel of oil is usually told in dollars, right? So if more countries are selling their oil by exchange rate of dollar, importance and strength of currency grows on markets, most African countries are using dollars for measuring oil worth, if some of them don't want to, then if it's zone of US influence, you are going to hear in tv/radio, there was "new tyrant/dictator", that's how the circle looks like.

Perhaps it is, (business exchange with Federation) but fuck knows how it will looks like, it's really political stuff, all of us in all countries know, what to do to make things better and government does exactly opposite, because their business, and earnings are based on things and relations we shouldn't know (in their opinion), so basically I won't be surprised if there will be war to make economy grow. I hate all our governments and love you all people.

@Rico, yea they may have no proofs, all we know is, rocket was too advanced for some group of riots. Can't tell if Federation's, UA's, UE's, NATO's, US's army is responsible for this tragedy, question is, why separatist are protecting wreck of plane? Anything to hide? (Not accusation, just another subject in this discussion).
Best anti-rocket system belongs to Israel. About Duma's system I can't tell much, but in all respect of military-science must say, thief is common thing in Russian army, so I won't be surprised if there is something missing ;D

About Germans, I would add Japan to it. Same happened and happening there, they are licking Americans asses.

@V1979, I never intended to blame whole country, always politicians, government in general. As I said before I have inborn aversion to Germans and Russians but still making friends of both:) and you shouldn't call Ukrainians "nazi", as long as you telling us to don't believe in propaganda.
We can't tell which system killed more people as long as we have no data from countries like China, North Korea, etc. I strongly believe I rather democracy with syndromes of totalitarianism than communism, because they are making he feel like I'm free person and we are living in freedom, I rather be cheated on it than know in how deep shit I'm atm. Main problem is they are still not good enough liars for me:/

And even I walk through the darkest valley of the shadow of death I will be not afraid because I am the worst motherfucker in this place.